Chess.com vs. Lichess
Comparison by W. Chan Fry
Published: 2021.03.22, Updated: 2023.04.12
Introduction
The two places I play chess online are Chess.com and Lichess.org. These seem to be the two main sites. When I first got back into chess in late 2020 (reminded by Netflix’s The Queen’s Gambit that I used to enjoy it), I sought and found dozens of chess apps and websites. I spent a few weeks narrowing down my options. At first, I assumed I would choose between Lichess and Chess.com, so I began a list of features in order to compare/contrast them. That list eventually became this web page.
SPOILER ALERT: After a couple of months, I decided I didn’t actually have to choose just one site: Why not play on BOTH? But if you’re curious about the differences and/or similarities between the two sites, or if for some reason you want to settle on only one of them, feel free to read on. I hope the following will help.
The Alternatives
I did try several alternatives, both apps and websites. All of them immediately convinced me they weren’t on the same level as Chess.com or Lichess. Some of them convinced me by a deluge of ads — most of the apps are swamped with ads and/or prompts to upgrade to pro versions. Lots of them have all the useful features locked behind paywalls. Most of the apps were glitchy or had terrible user interfaces. Most of the websites were ugly, difficult to use, and didn’t have enough active users to promise equal pairings for games. I won’t specifically advise against using any of these alternatives, but none of them met my needs when it comes to actually playing and learning chess.
(Note: A few weren’t actually chess-playing apps, but chess-learning apps, like solving chess puzzles, for example. Those are fine, but I also want to PLAY chess.)
Official Endorsements
Notably, the U.S. Chess Federation specifically endorses Chess.com (here) but not Lichess. The World Chess Federation (FIDE) does not appear to endorse any gaming app or site, but has its own site where users can play online.
Both Chess.com and Lichess enjoy quite a few titled players as members, some overtly identified and others playing under pseudonyms.
The Similarities
Chess.com and Lichess(.org) share a LONG list of similar features. The ones I know of are as follows.
As of 2023, I’ve been using both apps for more than two years. Both are mostly free of glitches, though I have seen a few. For example, Chess.com’s app persistently miscounted the number of games I played (see screenshot on this page) for several months. When I was a free member, Chess.com’s app regularly believed I’d used all my allotted lessons for the week when I actually hadn’t. Over time, both apps have occasionally crashed or locked up, though only Chess.com’s app has done this to me during a live game. I haven’t had any issues with either website. (Major exception: between mid-January and early March 2023, Chess.com’s servers crashed regularly, something they attributed to a huge influx of new players. By April, it seems they have scaled up sufficiently.)
Besides the features listed above, some other similarities between Lichess and Chess.com are downsides. For example, both have features that are only available on the app or only available on the website. (I think Lichess has a slight edge here, with at least consistency of design between the app and website, while Chess.com’s app development team apparently does not communicate with its site development team.) When I find a feature on the site that isn’t on the app (or vice versa), it’s often something useful and something that looks like it could easily be incorporated into the app. (I’m not a developer so take my judgment here for what it’s worth. Just know that if you choose either of these, you’ll get more out of it if you make use of both site and app.)
Both use many “local” settings, as opposed to account-level settings. This means if you change a setting on the app, like the board’s appearance for example, it will not affect the appearance of your chess board on the website — or even on the app on a different device. I (think I) understand the reasons for this (and obviously some settings only apply to the site or to the app), but it annoys me to have to change the same setting multiple times (once on the phone, once on the tablet, and once on the PC). Because I prefer consistency of experience, I wish most these settings would affect my account as a whole rather than being device-level preferences. (It’s possible I’m an outlier here; I realize many people use a single device for most operations, and others like having different settings on different devices.)
Differences
But you’re reading this page for the differences though, right? There are plenty. Here we go. (Again, keep in mind that both sites are fluid, changing regularly. They add features, remove features, and change things without consulting me. To my knowledge, the following is accurate as of the most recent update to this page.)
Type Of Company
Chess.com and Lichess are, at their roots, different types of organizations. Chess.com is a for-profit corporation with proprietary software, supported by advertising and paid memberships. Lichess is a non-profit, powered by donations and volunteers, using open-source software. For me, this is a huge point in favor of Lichess.
But it also means Lichess doesn’t have the financial resources to promote itself, hand out prize money, sponsor major tournaments, etc. This means Chess.com is generally more visible in the wider world (not to mention having the easier-to-find web address) and thus has the greater number of players/members.
Cost
Another point in Lichess’s favor is that it’s all free, all the time. There are no “pro” tiers or secret chess lessons only available to paying members. Everything the site/app offers, anyone can utilize.
At Chess.com, the only thing that’s unlimited for all users is gameplay and Stockfish analysis. Free users run into limits on puzzles, lessons, Game Review, and other features (like the Opening Explorer). Free users on Chess.com will see constant ads (though the ads are usually unobtrusive), frequently see prompts to upgrade, and can’t organize or administer tournaments. There are three paid tiers of increasing access: gold, platinum, and diamond, the prices of which rose in 2022. The last time I checked (April 2023), Gold unlocks all bots, unlimited puzzles, unlimited lessons, and does away with ads; Platinum has all that plus unlimited Game Reviews; and Diamond adds “Coach Explanations” and “Insights”
Puzzles
Though puzzles are listed under similarities above (because both sites have Daily Puzzles, catalogued puzzles, puzzle ratings, puzzle battle, puzzle streak, etc.), there are differences in how the user interacts with puzzles.
Both sites share the downside that in many puzzles a beginner will fail and have no understanding of what they were supposed to do. (This seems to be true on all other apps and sites that have chess puzzles, as far as I can tell.) Fairly often, the “correct” solution to a puzzle looks like a poor or pointless move (see screenshot on this page) — and there is no explanation as to why a player would want to end up in that position. I wish either or both sites would have their puzzle creators offer a sentence or two of explanation. Maybe just a phrase. (“Avoids checkmate at Qh2” or “gained material advantage”. Something.) Both sites also punish wrong moves more than they reward correct moves — sometimes a single wrong move in a multi-step puzzle will result in the user losing 17 points (more in Lichess) while getting an entire multi-step puzzle correct will only earn 5 points.
One of the differences in Lichess’s favor is of course the cost. Lichess users have constant access to all puzzles. However, on Chess.com a free user is limited to five puzzles per day. Another difference is that on Lichess all the puzzles are derived from actual games in the site’s database (each has a link to the game). As of this update, two of the puzzles are from my own games (this one and this one).
The other differences are in Chess.com’s favor. During the summer of 2021, Chess.com added video explanations (narrated by titled players) for their Daily Puzzles, which helped me in many cases — though these video explanations are limited to paying users. I also found that the correct solution in Chess.com puzzles is far more often something I can explain by analyzing the position whereas Lichess puzzles are more likely to remain inscrutable after completion. Further, Lichess has a persistent bug in puzzles: it will often say “success!” or “puzzle complete!” after a single move, when the actual solution has several more moves (I only found this out by clicking the “next move” arrow accidentally to discover that the puzzle wasn’t finished.
And though both sites make it difficult to navigate back to previous puzzles to retry them or try to understand them (impossible on both apps, as far as I can tell), it’s somewhat easier on Chess.com.
One final difference: On Chess.com, a user can reset her puzzle rating and start over from scratch. Often this is a good idea after one has struggled for some time. On Lichess, the puzzle stats cannot be reset — you simply reach a point at which puzzles are too difficult.
Ratings
Both sites rate users, and those ratings are updated after each contest. However, the two sites handle ratings differently. For one thing, neither site uses the older Elo rating system, which FIDE has used since the 1970s (many users still incorrectly refer to their ratings as “ELO”). Chess.com uses the slightly newer Glicko 1 rating system, while Lichess uses the even newer Glicko 2 (source). This results in a wide variance in ratings for the same player between the two sites.
In general, ratings on Lichess are significantly higher for the same person in each category. The table below lists my current (C) and maximum (M) rating in each of several categories that both sites share.
Rating Per Category | |||
Table last updated 2023.04.12 |
Chess.com | Lichess | (difference) |
---|---|---|---|
Bullet (C) | 836 | 1273 | (+437) |
Bullet (M) | 990 | 1287 | (+297) |
Blitz (C) | 913 | 1367 | (+454) |
Blitz (M) | 913 | 1407 | (+494) |
Rapid (C) | 1313 | 1635 | (+322) |
Rapid (M) | 1359 | 1743 | (+384) |
Daily (C) | 1357 | 1761 | (+404) |
Daily (M) | 1410 | 1919 | (+509) |
Puzzles (C) | 2264 | 1979 | (-285) |
Puzzles (M) | 2264 | 2260 | (-4) |
A second difference is that Lichess doesn’t allow rated games in certain variants (like Chess960, for example, which is why I didn’t include that variant in the chart above), but with Chess.com a user can play rated games of any type.
Thirdly, ratings are displayed differently to opponents. On Chess.com, each opponent sees my current rating next to my username as we play each other. During days-long (or weeks-long in some cases) games, they will see my rating change in real time as I win or lose other games. But on Lichess, the opponent continues to see my rating as it was when the game began. I might have been rated 1600 when we began, but rose to 2000 as I beat other people; my opponent will continue to see 1600. Of course, this only makes a difference on the long games and wouldn’t matter in a quick, live game. (And any opponent can see my current rating on my profile at any time.)
Fourthly, ratings are displayed differently in the game archives, or on game pages when pulled up after the fact. On Chess.com, the rating shown on a finished game (or in the archives) is the rating after points were added/deducted upon the completion of the game. Lichess on the other hand displays the rating that each player saw when the game began.
Perhaps less important is the appearance of the ratings graphs, as shown in screenshots on this page. Both sites’ graphs are informative about a user’s progress over time, though each site chooses to display different information underneath the graphs (and each app differs from each website). I also think the Chess.com graphs look better.
Leagues
In December 2021, Chess.com added Leagues (after testing in Beta for some users over a few months), which is separate from their “clubs”. In fact, the Leagues idea appears to have been copied wholecloth from Duolingo. All users on the site are grouped into leagues — beginning with the “Wood League” and divided into divisions of 50 players apiece. At the end of each week, the top 20 players from each division advance to the next league (Stone, Bronze, Silver, Crystal, Elite, Champion, and finally Legend). Points are earned by winning live games (Rapid, Blitz, Bullet), and even a handful of points are earned from drawing/stalemating. After paying attention to it for a few weeks, it appears to be a dopamine-powered incentive to get members to play more games on the site (again, exactly like the leagues on Duolingo), so I lost interest.
Game Types
Both sites offer a variety of time controls for games, but they aren’t identical and they disagree on which time controls fit which naming conventions. For example, the term “Bullet” means a time control (total game time for each player) of 30 seconds to two minutes on Chess.com, but ranges from 15 seconds to two minutes on Lichess. “Blitz” means 3-5 minutes on Chess.com, but 3-7 on Lichess. “Rapid” games are 10-45 minutes on Chess.com, but 8-20 on Lichess.
And Lichess has a separate category for “Classical” games, ranging from 25-180 minutes per side. As far as I can tell, there’s no way to set a 180-minute clock on Chess.com.
Games with days per move are called “daily” on Chess.com and “correspondence” on Lichess. Both give options of 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, or 14 days per move per player, while Lichess offers the additional options of 10 days or unlimited. (These are my favorite types of games on both sites, because I usually can’t sit and play a full live game. It’s more convenient to check a game when I have time, make a move, and walk away.)
(Click here to see a screenshot of Chess.com’s time selection from the app.)
In chess variants (games that use the chess board but with different rules), the sites have slightly differing options as well. For example, Chess.com has 4-Player Chess, while Lichess doesn’t. Both have 960, 3Check, King Of The Hill, Racing Kings, and Bughouse (which Lichess calls “Crazyhouse”). Chess.com offers additional variants like Blindfold, Torpedo, and others, while Lichess has Antichess. As far as I can tell, Lichess offers all its variants in both the app and the website, while Chess.com only offers them all on the website — variants are strictly limited (or very hard to find) in the app.
And the sites use different symbols to represent each type of time control and variant. For example, for the Rapid time control, Chess.com uses a stopwatch icon while Lichess uses a rabbit icon. One downside to playing both sites is having to learn both sets of icons.
Post-Game Analysis
Both sites offer post-game analysis, in which an AI chess engine evaluates your game for mistakes, blunders, great moves, etc., and that is free on both sites. However, the “Game Review” feature, which lists mistakes, blunders, etc., is always free on Lichess but strictly limited to one per day on Chess.com. Both sites use Stockfish as the primary analyzing engine, and as of April 2023, both are using Stockfish version 15. (Lichess was the first to implement 15, and it continued to work there during the month or more when Chess.com had to revert back to version 11.)
(One example of the difference in analysis is in this game. Chess.com says white’s fourth move [Qf3] is an “inaccuracy”. When I uploaded this game to Lichess for analysis (here), it said that same move is a “blunder”. The same disagreement occurs on white’s ninth move [Qh4].)
User Interface
There’s no clear winner for me when it comes to the look-and-feel of the sites and apps, or their usability. Each has minor advantages and disadvantages that make them different, but neither could be said to be superior. (Note: originally, I gave a point to Lichess here, because Chess.com’s “dark mode” left broad swaths of the site [not the app] very bright, but that was corrected a few months later.)
Chess.com makes it easier to find my list of daily games (I have dozens going on at once) to see how much time I have left to make a move or whether I’m waiting for an opponent. With Lichess, it takes some effort — games are listed out of order and there is not a simple list of ongoing games.
But Lichess is a clear winner when it comes to consistency of design. The site and the app are very similar, as if the teams who design them work in concert. Menus are in the same places and navigation is very similar between the two formats. With Chess.com on the other hand, the site and app are very different — almost completely independent.
• Daily Tournaments
Both sites host plenty of tournaments in multiple time controls (Bullet, Blitz, Rapid, etc.), with new ones beginning multiple times daily, one huge difference is that Chess.com also offers tournaments for “Daily” games (games in which each player has a day or more to make a move). For months, this was my preferred time control and so I found myself gravitating to Chess.com due to the Daily tournaments. I submitted a feature request on Lichess, asking for correspondence tournaments, but the responses weren’t encouraging. Most users there are convinced such tournaments would (1) take too long, and (2) “encourage cheating”. At the time, I had been almost ready to switch to Lichess entirely until I found out this one thing. It might be the only reason I kept using Chess.com in those early days.
Later, I found that Chess.com also makes it easier to find and keep track of past tournaments in which a user has played. On Lichess, I can't find any navigation route that takes me to a list of tournaments I’ve played there.
Archives
While both sites store completed games in archives that can be re-played move-by-move, this is easier to access and peruse in Chess.com.
Both sites allow downloads of PGN files (Portable Game Notation), which is a standard method of digitally storing chess games. These are incredibly light/small files (often smaller than 1kb) and can be opened by a variety of free and paid PGN viewers for replaying, analyzing, annotating, etc. Lichess itself has an import page where users can upload pgn files for replay or analysis (so a free user of Chess.com, for example, limited to one free Game Review per day, could download her PGN files and then import them to Lichess for the Game Review). These downloads are easier to access on Chess.com — there’s a download button right on the game page. On Lichess, you have to click “analysis”, and then scroll down to find the “FEN & PGN” tab, click it, and then click the “download raw” or “download annotated” links to get the PGN file.
URLs
This one won’t affect app users, but we old-style PC users will notice the different ways the sites handle URLs — web addresses — of our games. Here are some examples:
https://www.chess.com/game/daily/337497433
https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/daily/337497433
https://lichess.org/PWvAKa9wi7PZ
https://lichess.org/PWvAKa9w/white
The two Chess.com URLs above are from the same game — one is the game page and the other
is the analysis page. The number assigned to both is identical, with the only URL difference being
the addition of the /analysis/
part. But the Lichess URL, when changing from the game
page to the analysis page, subtracts part of the identifier and adds
/white
to the end (or “black”, depending on which color I played). This
might not seem like a big deal to many users, but to me — someone who regularly copies and
pastes URLs — the Chess.com version is superior.
Notifications
Both sites/apps provide regular notifications of various events (someone has challenged me, I have a new message in my inbox, an opponent has moved in a correspondence game, etc.), and both of them can be annoyingly out of date when I switch devices. For example, if an opponent and I have already exchanged moves in the browser, but then I switch to the app on my tablet, I’ll receive notifications for moves I’ve already responded to. Sometimes this even happens when I don’t switch devices. But Chess.com is far worse about this. Sometimes it will inform me of a series of moves in games that are already over. And then if I switch devices again, I’ll get all those notifications again in the new device. It’s a great example of the over-notification people complain about with mobile devices in general. Lichess’s worst examples are simply a few seconds’ delay — if I open the app and immediately respond to a move, I might still get a notification in a few seconds. This is an example of far better design on Lichess’s part.
Insights
Lichess has a statistical analysis tool called “Insights”, which each user
can access via a link on her profile page (on the website, not the app). (If you’re a member,
use this URL: https://lichess.org/insights/username/
— replacing
“username” with your own.) Here, the user can learn things like “When I trade
queens, how do games end?”, “What is my win-rate per opening”, and other
such questions.
Chess.com had nothing like this until December 2021, when the completely original and not-copied-in-any-way “Insights” section was added (only available to top-tier “Diamond” members). In June 2022 I upgraded to Diamond and perused the information several times. The information here isn’t like Lichess.org’s Insights page at all. The most interesting thing I learned is that I have much higher winning percentages on Sunday than on other days of the week, and I’m much more likely to lose on other days. (Not sure why.)
(I made a video in which I explored the Chess.com Insights page.)
Lessons / Studies
The two organizations also handle their lessons differently. On Lichess, I could only find lessons on the website (here), and they’re pretty basic. But they’re free, available to all users. On Chess.com, the lessons are available in both the app and website, and each comes with a short video (2-5 minutes) explaining a principle before the user confronts a few challenges at the end. But they’re strictly limited to one lesson a week for free users (unlimited for all paid members).
Lichess, on the other hand, has a bunch of user-generated studies, some of which have actually helped me. This isn’t something I’ve found on Chess.com.
Blogs
Both sites offer a blogging function (here is mine on Chess.com and this is my Lichess blog). When I first made this page, only Chess.com had blogging, but Lichess added their version in 2021. Strangely, against all established norms for blogs, Lichess blogs do not have comment sections.
Collections
In 2021 Chess.com added a feature called “Collections”, with which a user can curate a group of games (either her own or others’ games, or both). To test the feature, I created a collection called My Best (And Fastest) Wins. I later made a collection for My Ten Longest Games (most moves), My Best Wins ('Rapid'), and Hippo Defense (which is for games in which I played the Hippo Defense). Users can also peruse all other public collections, and some of them are fairly interesting, like Bobby Fischer — My 60 Memorable Games and World Chess Championships: 1886-2018.
Lichess doesn’t have anything like this function. The closest I could find there was the “bookmark” feature, though I haven’t explored it in-depth. It looks like this can only be used to bookmark favorite games from one’s own game list — I tried but didn’t see the bookmark button on other people’s games. I suppose I could use that to collect some of my own games to look back at later. However, for that purpose it would probably be easier to maintain a local .txt file with URLs of specific games.
How Many Points?
For players curious about how many points they stand to win or lose after their games, Chess.com has “Rating Adjustment” info listed right on the game page (on the website, not the app). At any point during the game, I can click over there to see what I stand to lose or gain. For example, in this game (which I eventually lost after listing it here) I would have increased 13 points if I won, 6 points if we drew, and decreased by only 3 points if I lost — because the other player outranked me by quite a bit. This information isn’t available at all on Lichess — you just find out when the game ends how many points were lost or gained.
Pool Of Players
By far, Chess.com has a larger player pool, with hundreds of thousands of people using the site at any given time and millions of active members (though it’s difficult to find this information). Lichess on the other hand, shows 120,000 active users during peak times and as few as 40,000 in slower periods (this information is right on the site’s front page, updated live). But I haven’t had any trouble finding matches for my games on either site, unless I choose a less-common game format or time control. On both sites, my opponents have been from a variety of countries and time zones. (This page on Chess.com lists the 116 countries of origin of my opponents — as of 2023.04.13 — from Afghanistan and Albania to Wales and Yemen.)
Perhaps because of the larger player pool, Chess.com has a wider variety of types of players, at least in my experience. Most or all of my opponents on Lichess have seemed interested only in playing chess, with very rare chat messages. I get those types on Chess.com too, but also have stumbled across plenty of others. For example, there is the type of irritating player who offers a draw after every move, even when losing and ranked low (knowing that if I accidentally accept the draw, I’ll lose points and they’ll gain points). Others on Chess.com only begin to offer draws when they’re about to lose. I’ve run into “trash talkers” — those who seek a psychological advantage by leaving a series of confusing or challenging comments in the chat section (which is especially distracting during faster time controls). On Chess.com, I also see a wider variety in skill level in each rating range. (One game, I’ll win easily, while the next opponent crushes me just as easily.)
User Forums
Both sites offer user forums (Chess.com Forums, Lichess Forums), though they differ quite a bit. Chess.com’s forums (plural) are divided into twenty-three categories, including “game analysis”, “for beginners”, etc. Each category has three forum threads listed on the Forums page, so a user can see what’s under discussion at any given time. On Lichess, the forums are divided into only four categories, and no topics are listed on the main page. A user has to click through one of the categories to see what’s being discussed. Lichess has an interesting spam-prevention feature on its forum posts: before you can click the “submit” button for a new thread or a reply, you must solve a “checkmate in one move” puzzle.
I have used both forums sparingly (not wishing to get trapped in a time-suck like I once did on Flickr), and found the results hit-or-miss. On Chess.com, I am more likely to get a reply, though it is not always helpful, while on Lichess, I often get zero replies. Both forums see a lot of repeat posts (same question, different day). I see more evidence of moderation in the Lichess forums — though all the moderators are volunteers. They will remove posts that violate the rules, or lock threads that go off the rails. On Chess.com, I see less evidence of this (though it might still be happening).
Also on Lichess, forum threads automatically lock after four weeks of inactivity, even if the original poster is still waiting on an answer. On Chess.com, threads stay open indefinitely, which means trolls can seek out 10-year-old threads and revive them for no reason whatsoever.
App/Site Updates
Since joining both sites, I’ve experienced regular (almost weekly) site and app updates on Chess.com, evidence of a larger, paid team of developers. Bugs get (slowly) fixed. New features are rolled out. Old, deprecated parts of the site are removed. The look and feel changes. App updates roll out every couple of weeks. On one hand, this constant improvement seems good; on the other hand it can sometimes be frustrating when a new feature appears without warning, or navigation suddenly doesn’t work as expected.
Lichess has made few changes, and most of them were minor. The only major update I’ve seen was the addition of blogs to the site. The app almost never has an update pushing on Google Play. This is evidence of an unpaid, mostly volunteer team. On one hand, they don’t need a lot of updates — the site is solid, for the most part. On the other hand, it can sometimes appear like the site/app has been abandoned.
Customer Service
On both sites I have had occasion to ask for help or submit bug reports. On Chess.com, I almost always get replies when I submit bug reports, and when I’ve asked for help or explanation in the forums, I almost always get a helpful response.
On Lichess, I can’t find a way to submit a bug report on either the app or the site, so I have reported a few in the Forums, where no one of importance has replied. One persistent bug there is the “puzzle complete!” bug, in which the puzzle says it’s been solved after just one move, when there are actually more moves remaining. If anyone logged my reporting of it, I am not aware.
Customization
Though both sites allow users to change the look-and-feel slightly (chessboard colors, piece designs, light/dark mode), only Lichess allows users to plugin a userscript to completely redesign the site to their liking. I have used a script called Prettierlichess (“It's lichess, but prettier”), which gives me options to change colors on the site — font colors, background colors, arrow colors, etc. It’s been helpful, I think.
Going Pro
In early 2021, I decided to keep using both sites (instead of choosing only one). And I decided to give money to both sites. I set up a recurring monthly donation of five dollars to Lichess.org, so I counted as a “patron” of the organization — this doesn’t come with any privileges, just a good feeling. On Chess.com, I upgraded my free account to “Gold Member” and later to “Diamond”. That was less than $8 per month (combined). In my mind, chess sites are worth supporting financially, if the user is able.
Note that later, I cut off my donations to Lichess when they refused to lock or remove a forum thread filled with homophobic insults and other hate speech. (But then they did lock and remove the thread eventually, so I might reconsider donating again.) Also, Diamond membership on Chess.com turned out to be not much better than Gold, so in mid-2023, I plan to drop back down.
Caveats
Three relevant notes:
Conclusion
I use both sites daily, checking in on my correspondence games when I have a few minutes, absorbing the offered lessons, and trying to solve a few puzzles. If I have time to sit uninterrupted for a few minutes, I’ll play a fast live game (though I really, really suck at Bullet and Blitz). This isn’t taking any extra time from my day; it’s replacing the time I used to spend scrolling Twitter and heart-wrenching headlines during the 2017-2021 Dark Time.